This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. #GOTOcon #GOTObookclub
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub
Read the full transcription of the interview here:
https://gotopia.tech/episodes/346
Evelyn van Kelle - Behavioral Change Consultant at Xebia & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @evelynvankelle9444
Gien Verschatse - Senior Consultant at Aardling & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @gienverschatse9261
Kenny Baas-Schwegler - Collaborative Modeling Facilitator at Weave IT & Co-Author of "Collaborative Software Design" @kennybaas-schwegler2730
Xin Yao - Independent Consultant Contextualizing DDD & Sociotechnical Architecture
RESOURCES
Evelyn
https://bsky.app/profile/evelynvankelle.bsky.social
https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelynvankelle
https://x.com/EvelynvanKelle
https://evelynvankelle.com
Gien
https://bsky.app/profile/selketjah.bsky.social
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gien-verschatse
https://github.com/selketjah
https://x.com/selketjah
https://www.gienverschatse.com
Kenny
https://bsky.app/profile/kenny.weave-it.org
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenny-baas
https://mastodon.social/@kenny_baas
https://weave-it.org
Xin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/xinxin
https://x.com/settling_mud
Links
https://collaborative-software-design.com
https://bsky.app/profile/collaborative-software-design.com
https://www.linkedin.com/company/collaborative-software-design
https://youtu.be/NGXl1D-KwRI
http://katymilkman.com/podcast
https://barryoreilly.com
DESCRIPTION
In a spirited discussion on collaborative modeling and decision-making, the the authors of “Collaborative Software Design: How to Facilitate Domain Modeling Decisions”—Evelyn vVan Kelle, Gien Verschatse, and Kenny Baas-Schwegler—explored the power of inclusive decision-making, shared understanding, and how to navigate social dynamics like bias, ranking and conflict in teams together with Xin Yao.
They highlighted the importance of facilitating not just through structured methods, but by empowering everyone in the team to contribute and lead decisions. Drawing from their experiences, they shared insights into the process of making better decisions through collaboration, the impact of "Deep Democracy", and the value of being able to step back and allow teams to thrive independently. Their conversation also touched on resources like Thinking, Fast and Slow, Jam Cultures, and Sitting in the Fire—tools to help teams make smarter decisions and grow together.
TIMECODES
00:00 Intro
09:28 Challenges of writing a book collaboratively
14:40 Understanding shadows & their role in collaboration
26:00 The challenge of brownfield complexity
31:17 Understanding & managing tech. debt through collaborative decision-making
37:27 Moments of fulfillment in facilitation
44:20 Resources for collaborative modeling & decision-making
48:50 Outro
RECOMMENDED BOOKS
van Kelle, Verschatse &Baas-Schwegler • Collaborative Software Design • https://amzn.to/4iv0N8I
Jitske Kramer • Jam Cultures • https://amzn.to/3ONLRVC
Danielle Braun & Jitske Kramer • The Corporate Tribe • https://amzn.to/4iqUaEl
Arnold Mindell • Sitting in the Fire • https://amzn.to/3ZJ374z
Daniel Kahneman • Thinking, Fast and Slow • https://amzn.to/4is0Jqb
Gerard Puccio • The Creative Thinker's Toolkit • https://amzn.to/3ZOzfE2
Diana Montalion • Learning Systems Thinking • https://amzn.to/3ZpycdJ
Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais • Team Topologies • http://amzn.to/3sVLyLQ
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